Docks

[stevenjhc]

Guys

I do understand the sensitivities around the subject of de-industrialising the Thames and I truly respect the feelings of those of you who have lived and worked in and around the docks. I think I may have made a bit of a crass point above and so I suppose I should clarify the reasons behind the point that I made about the likely rebirth of industry along the river.

Firstly, I run a business that makes machinery for the so called "low carbon economy" and I freely admit to being very optimistic about the future for this sector.

Secondly, and following on from the first point,  I believe that the low carbon economy is inextricably linked to the sea...think wind and tide power...and eventually the renaissance of sail powered small vessels (upto say 150 ft)

Thirdly, the British governement will in my view eventually be won over by the sound economic and political sense of assisting the growth of these industries.....

If I am right in my admittedly quite imaginative assumptions, then there will eventually be the need for a huge build-up of  infrastructure to support these marine based low carbon industries.

In particular these industries will need to be close to the large population centres, because in the long run oil will become so expensive that goods will once again have to be made close to the navigable waterways and also near to sources of cheap power ......the British East Coast is already home to one of the biggest windfarms in the world, and this concentration of wind power will become absolutely vast over the coming years.

If one was to start looking for somewhere near to a large connurbation that is also near to sources of renewable energy and that is surrounded by navigable waterways and a skilful and dedicated workforce in order, as I have assumed, to establish a base for setting up a completely massive programme of tooling-up for the low carbon economy - and this is real world stuff, not just blue sky thinking - then in my opinion the Royal Docks (as was) would come at or near to the top of the list of potential development sites.

There, I have got it off my chest...hopefully without causing myself too much embarrassment and without I hope having let my reverence for "Old Father Thames" colour by judgement too strongly

So in all seriousness, I give it 30 to 40 years before the Thames is once more at the heart of an industrial revolution (different in many ways from the last one, but in some key respects not so different).....By this time I will, God willing, still be good for the wager that I made above.

Best Wishes

Steve

 

[ed styles]

  Bill,
      I enjoyed it when Ray Savory posted it back in 2007 from you on the old site, good stuff, since then lots of new posters have joined hope they enjoy it
    All the best Ed

[ed styles]

 Steven,
          I hope my earlier reply to your post was not to critical, as I'm not a subscriber to the " Flat Earth Society " .
 After reading your explanations, I can see a little of where your coming from , so let me wish you all the best with this Venture .
 
    ED

[Rennay]

Hey Bill, I loved that story may I have your permission to re-post it on another Nostalgia Website that I frequent. I'm sure it would interest a lot of readers. I would attach your name to it. It would certainly stimulate discussion.

Rennay

[Bill Sharpe]

No problem Rennay, let me know how it is received.

[Bill Sharpe]

You know Will, I did all the East End bits - Went Hopping as a kid - ate pie mash and jellied eels - went to the two puddings, Lotus and uppercut - was a member of Fairburn House and the Dockland settlement - went to raffie and got my ice-creams from Murkoffs - went down the lane every Sunday - Went up West when I was flush - had some great family Knees up's-remember the eccentric  window cleaner who used to cycle up the Barking road roaring out 'Whoaa' and seeing the poor shellshocked ex-soldier outside the Castle pub throwing imaginary hand grenades and thrusting with his imaginary bayonet. - riding my bike up and down the big dipper at Becton dumps - seeing the hurdy gurdy man, Levi, with his horse drawn kids roundabout - went to the boleyn to support the hammers and West Ham Stadium for the dog's and speedway. I miss all of those things but what I miss most is the docks and the wonderful ships that plied their trade in their. I am proud that I was the last of generations of my family who went to sea, then sought work in the docks. It's so sad that we are a dying breed - before too long the people of our beloved borough will have no memory or conception or what we had. They can take away my health, they can take away financial security but they can never take away my memories.

[Will.B]

 Bill,
       Thanks for your posting and taking me back once more through my memories. Since first being taking down the docks with my Father until leaving the last ship I worked on, I have always been keen on shipping and the docks, as a kid when money was scarce we could always rely on Mum and Dad to take us to see those wonderful ships and finish up with a trip across the ferry and of course the scene was always changing from one week to another. The company that I worked for had contracts with most of the shipping companies, so for me it was an ideal job; I could be on a dredger or a tug in river one day and on one of Shaw Saville or P & O liners the next, so I could not agree with you more when you say it’s the docks that you miss most, so do I.

I think we must try and keep the memory of the docks alive because it is probably the most important part of Newham’s history, the docks have only been closed for roughly 30 years now but I sometimes wonder if we had a survey somewhere in Newham now how many people would be able to put a name to each of the Newham docks.

Watched a programme on television a couple of nights ago called Artic convoys, about ships taken arms and munitions to Russia during the war, my God how those seamen suffered with many losing their lives in those frozen waters, and they never got any recognition from the British Government .

[Bill Sharpe]

Will,You are right about the Arctic Convoys Will. In fact we owe a huge debt to all Merchant Seamen who served in World War 2.On a percentage basis they lost more men than any of the the other services. My Grandad was on the first 'Dunedin Star' when it run aground off the Skeleton Coast. West Africa, he was one of only a few survivors - he also served as a Fireman/trimmer on the Arctic convoys. I have said many times before that my sea service in the sixties was a walk in the park compared to what my Father and Grandfather went through. My Dad had to wait 50 years before he was a awarded with Merchant Navy Veterans badge - he was so proud of that. Hearts of Oak, Will, we will never see their like again.

[fredpatter]

Hi.
My brother was a Docker. when he came out of the Army .He took over my deceased fathers Docker Ticket.
As a young boy he taught me Back Slang where you dropped the first letter of the word, put it on the end, and added
the expression A. For instance fred was pronounced eddiefay.I think this Slang might have been used by the Dockers

.Working conditions in the docks in those days were pretty basic. 50 years after leaving the Docks
 my brother died from sleeping Asbestosis

Regards Fred

[Will.B]

When I worked on the P & O ships in the dock, the Carpenter was called Gena and  his mate was called Parnie Wallah but I am sure I have not spelt that right.
It might surprise some people that were not associated with the docks and ships just how many different crew nationalities there were using the Royal Docks in its heyday; I have listed below some that I remember but I am sure there were many more. Of course many of the ships that had foreign crews also had European officers and Owners.

Blue Star-British, B I.-Indian, Brocklebank- Indian, Canadian Pacific- British , Clan Line-Indian, Cunard- British, Elder Dempster- West African, Ellerman Lines- Indian, Federal Line- British, Glen Line- Chinese, P Henderson Line- West African, Houlder Bros-British, New Zealand Line- British, P & O- Indian, Port Line-British, Royal Mail Line- British, Shaw Savill Line- British, Union Castle Line- British, Dodero Line- Argentinian Bank Line-Indian,Ben Line- Indian?, Harrison Line-West Indian, Palm Line- West African, United States Line- American, Hain.S.S Co-Indian, plus many more foreign crewed tramp ships.

[beaverfir]

Bill,what a brilliant little story,I have just joined this forum and find it very interesting,having grown up in Newham or West Ham as it was once called.I worked in the docks in the 50s and 60s as a Shipwright and sailing from the Vic Dock as a ships carpenter.

[Will.B]

beaverfir,
              Thanks for you post and welcome to the forum, yes in the 1950s/1960s I was also working on most of the ships in the royal Docks for companies like, Blue Star,Shaw Savill, P & O and Canadian Pacific to mention just a few.
Best Wishes. Will

[ed styles]

Beaverfir,
Judging by your postname and working and sailing from the " Vic ", I'd say you worked for Canadian Pacific and sailed on the Beaver Boats? .
I was timed served with Shaw Savill's in the Royals in the early 60's, and was also at Sea as a Chippy.
We need more posters like you as us Old regular's like Will and Bill and a few others are running out of tales about the Glory years in the Royals . Swing that Lamp .

Welcome to the Site      All the best Ed

[jem45]

I remember the docks my dad used to take me round there lots. My one big memory is new years eve when i would be allowed to stay up. We all used to go out onto tollgate road banging saucepans, trays and make a racket. You could hear the boats tooting from the docks.
I too have passed generations worked the docks. My grt grandad was last seen in 1907 going off for work up the docks but went missing heaven knows where he went! Hope the docks do start working again how good that would be.

[Bill Sharpe]

Welcome to this site Beaverfir - I wonder if you remember ever sailing with my father - Tom Sharpe - he was an A.B. on the beaver boats throughout the fifties. I did my time with Blue Star and Shaw swivel - happy happy days.